Demo Feedback

General Clones Discussion

Re: Demo Feedback

Postby DjinnGuru » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:39 pm

I'd estimate I saw 6-8 crashes in about an hour or hour and a half. All but one
involved me clicking one of the CM picture icons. It happened on all 3 CM's
at least once. (I did also click those CM icons many times without crashing.)

The only other crash happened once on clicking the "back" button top left
while leaving that same page. I saw the black menu for a fraction
of a second before it happened.
>>>DjinnGuru<<<
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby NovaClaft » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:55 am

I was very entertained with the demo version, and I'm certainly going to buy the full version when it comes out.

I also referenced a couple of friends who love Lemmings to this game :P They said the controls were a bit awkward. Probably too used to Lemmings. I sure find them an improvement over the Lemmings controls.

Anyway, epic work, you people! You make me proud.
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:19 am

NovaClaft wrote:I also referenced a couple of friends who love Lemmings to this game :P They said the controls were a bit awkward. Probably too used to Lemmings. I sure find them an improvement over the Lemmings controls.


The controls are always a tricky subject. We evaluated many different methods for the controls and we chose the type of controls that worked best in a fast paced multiplayer game where one needs to give morphs precisely and quickly. The "lemmings way" may be quick at times, but it is not very precise at all. For example, if you had an area where you have many clones bunched up, you first select the clone you want to give the morph to, and once selected, then you can give the morph at precisely the right time (with absolute guarantees). This just can't be done the "lemmings way", but it is essential for deterministic gameplay.
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:33 pm

I've got a little more time again, and would like to run another multiplayer test.

I am awake from roughly 04:00 to 19:00 UTC, geoo has a similar rhythm I think. I've got things to do tomorrow (March 18th), but am free afterwards. If rt or someone else would like to playtest the current Clones demo with us, I'd be happy about a date/time proposal!

How exactly do I force direction? I've read somewhere that it involves the mouse wheel, but I would like to know how it works in detail.

I remember I haven't answered the question about Ice Climb, what I think of rescuing both the green and white clone. Over the past days, I had this idea: On the left, there's the exit, to its right a frozen clone, then a jumpable wall, then another frozen clone. You win by saving 2 clones. The right one is just for demonstration. You will always save the exit-near clone if you don't mine away the wall. But you can save all 3 by removing the wall, and additionaly mining a tunnel to turn the white clones.

rt also asked about where I failed the level after losing the green clone. I thought about it, and now I strongly believe that I didn't fail the level by killing the green clone, but rather by killing the white one and then exiting. it makes perfect sense that the level is failed, then.

-- Simon
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:34 pm

Simon wrote:I am awake from roughly 04:00 to 19:00 UTC, geoo has a similar rhythm I think. I've got things to do tomorrow (March 18th), but am free afterwards.

March 18th - we'll have a server running from 16:00 to 22:00 UTC.

Simon wrote:How exactly do I force direction? I've read somewhere that it involves the mouse wheel, but I would like to know how it works in detail.

Direction modes can be used in two scenarios:
1. Filter select clone in a particular direction - first press the left bracket key ([), then you will only be able to select clones facing left, and right bracket (]) for clones facing right. Basically it acts like a selection filter.
2. Queue morph until clone faces direction - with a clone already selected, press the left or right bracket to enter direction queue mode, then assign the morph. The next time the clone faces the direction that matches the directional queued morph, the clone will perform the action.

In addition to queued morph based on direction, Clones also support very simple queuing of morphs in cases where the morph can't be performed right away, but will be performed the next time it is possible. This is automatic and transparent to the player, but if the player understands it, it is possible to take advantage of this behaviour. We added this feature in to combat lag in multiplayer matches (for example you can queue a molder morph to a faller so that the clone starts molding the moment it lands).

Simon wrote:I remember I haven't answered the question about Ice Climb, what I think of rescuing both the green and white clone.

Ice Climb was modified so that you only need to save 1 clone to pass, and if you get the other clone, then you get a better score (and a higher ranking).
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:38 pm

Heh, we had some fun games again.

While browsing through old replays afterwards, I noticed this in a replay of Octogame, which got recorded with an older version of Clones, though: The background doesn't scroll into view properly, sometimes a dark border/frame is seen in the back. If you scroll around a bit, the border vanishes. It appears always around the same scroll coordinates. See attachment.

Current Clones version is the 1.00 Demo with a resoultion of 1024 x 768, the game was recorded with 0.84 with the 1280 x 960 resolution, I think.

I cannot select a resolution that's higher than 1024 x 768 in the demo, is that intended? My screen's native resolution is 1280 x 1024.

Also, big thanks for the directional force! I like it so much, I've set it to the left-hand-friendly keys S and F, while remapping the morph layout a bit.

-- Simon
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playback_scroll_bug_2.jpg
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playback_scroll_bug_1.jpg
playback_scroll_bug_1.jpg (127.78 KiB) Viewed 2695 times
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:14 pm

Simon wrote:While browsing through old replays afterwards, I noticed this in a replay of Octogame, which got recorded with an older version of Clones, though: The background doesn't scroll into view properly

This bug was fixed recently and will be in the next patch update. Replay files recorded in an older version (especially from the beta) may not play back properly because of changes to the game logic. I think I forgot to increment the replay file version number before releasing version 1.00, which is why it allowed you to play that old file. In fact the next bug fix patch will prevent version 1.00 replays from working. We are still doing some minor tweaks to the logic, but it's better to do them now than later. Hopefully the game logic will not change after 1.01.

Simon wrote:I cannot select a resolution that's higher than 1024 x 768 in the demo, is that intended? My screen's native resolution is 1280 x 1024.

Clones only supports resolutions that have an aspect ratio of 4:3 (1.33) or wider. Your screen's aspect ratio is 1.25, so those higher resolutions are not available. The problem is that I would need to modify some of the GUI positions/sizes to make it work at smaller aspect ratios. I did preliminary work on this, but it's low priority.

Simon wrote:Also, big thanks for the directional force! I like it so much, I've set it to the left-hand-friendly keys S and F, while remapping the morph layout a bit.

I'm glad someone uses it :) I don't use it much myself because it's such a new feature, but it sure is handy in those special situations. I use the default keyboard layout (rt and I tried to optimize the morph keys as much as possible). Maybe you can start a new thread discussing why your keybindings are better than the default 8-)

Do you use the clone pinning, and selection cycling feature (keys 9,0,8??) Again, this feature is fairly new so I don't use it much but I think I should be!
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:46 am

I've played some more multiplayer with you during the past days, and there were only a few things to report:

rt and me played a match with 999 clones per player, then another match with the regular number again. I believe the clone counting bars at the screen's top right were rather short in the latter mach, as if they were still sized to support 999 clones.

In the demo's included Capture the clone level, there is no music playing. I don't know if this is intended, as there's music in the beach level.

I don't use 8, 9, 0 for clone selection right now, like the mouse wheel. At least the latter might be a useful feature to remember in some situations, based on rt's examples in the controls topic.

-- Simon
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:26 pm

Simon wrote:rt and me played a match with 999 clones per player, then another match with the regular number again. I believe the clone counting bars at the screen's top right were rather short in the latter mach, as if they were still sized to support 999 clones.

Never noticed this before, but it's now fixed.

Simon wrote:In the demo's included Capture the clone level, there is no music playing. I don't know if this is intended, as there's music in the beach level.

Octoverse also has no music. We didn't include some of the music tracks to reduce the size of the demo installer, but I think one of the existing tracks should be playing instead.

Thanks for reporting these issues!
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:22 am

Found another small bug.

If you host a networked game, you'll get a menu to choose levels, modifications etc. between each game. You can also open the regular options dialogue, and from there the hotkey layout dialogue. However, the hotkey dialogue won't be active, i.e. it won't take mouse clicks and you cannot close it. Instead, you can click buttons in the host's level dialogue below.

I think the following is already known: There's still the old crash when exiting the application. It occurs every time after clicking away the credits. (Win XP, Nvidia Geforce Go 7600, DirectX 9.0c, let me know if you need more specs; crash files attached)

-- Simon
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