New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

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New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby rt » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:29 pm

Do you have an idea for new interactive objects in Clones? If so let us know and we might include it in an upcoming patch! Here are some ideas that didn't make it into the game yet:

- Freeze time pickup: When a clone walks into this object all other clones and traps will freeze, but the one clone can still walk around and do things. Time would unfreeze after a few seconds.
- Clone Multiplier: When a clone walks into this trap two clones come out.
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby rt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:34 pm

Here is another idea, it's another GameModifier like the Clone Statues and Clone Stunning options.

Clone Mines - When enabled, each player gets 3 clone mines that they can place by selecting a clone and then pressing the "Set Mine" key. The mine will be placed but take a few seconds to activate so any clones nearby have time to get away. Once activated, any clone that touches the mine will set it off and destroy all clones nearby. Placing these along the route of your opponent is the idea, especially if the clone are all packed tightly. Perhaps the mine could fall if there is no land under it so that you can lop away the land under it to get it out of the way.

Thoughts?
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby rt » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:52 pm

I've been mulling over the "Clones Mine" concept some more, and it seems like a good way to balance out sabotage clones. Currently a single sabotage clone can, if devilishly controlled, gather up and drop a large number of clones to their doom regardless of what the defending player does. However, with mines enabled the defender can choose to sacrifice to destroy the attacker.

Should the clone morph into the mine, thus always costing at least one clone? Or just drop the mine and keep going. I was thinking this would be implemented like the current clone statues, so each player would have 3 mines to place in multiplayer, enabled by default.
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby Simon » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:20 am

(Can't write an elaborate post right now.) -- I don't like the whole concept of mines for several reasons:

  • The game's core idea is about altering terrain in helpful ways, and mines probably don't add to this. Any huge explosion radius would just help the attacker.
  • They may remove all-or-nothingness, thus add to the grinding feel, and make attacking less viable. Depends on implementation though.
  • They eat up another hotkey which can't be newbie friendly, and must be incorporated in any present key binds that more engaged players will already have.
  • If they require presence of a clone, you should make it a skill.
Instead, maybe nerf the basher mask so it doesn't remove the terrain behind the basher. Or buff the builder by not having him fall without land.

Especially the basher nerf may solve the problem you're speaking of a) at the root, b) more elegantly, and c) without complicating the game.

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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby rt » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:05 pm

Simon wrote:[*]The game's core idea is about altering terrain in helpful ways, and mines probably don't add to this. Any huge explosion radius would just help the attacker.


I was thinking that the mine wouldn't remove any land, it would just explode any clones nearby.

[*]They may remove all-or-nothingness, thus add to the grinding feel, and make attacking less viable. Depends on implementation though.


The mines would take a few seconds to arm, so the mine would have to be deployed ahead of an attacking clone, giving the attacker enough time to avoid the mine if they are watching that area.

[*]If they require presence of a clone, you should make it a skill.


We thought about this, but there is no room for more morphs :(

Instead, maybe nerf the basher mask so it doesn't remove the terrain behind the basher. Or buff the builder by not having him fall without land.


The builder idea is interesting. Geoo mentioned this too. It's the way Lemmings worked right? This would give much more power to builders since they could not be stopped while in the act of building except for walls or doppels. It would be an easy tweak to add an option for this (similar to the double fall distance option) and test it to see how it would affect gameplay.
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby rt » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:49 pm

Some more ideas to help balance out a sabotage clone, please share your comments:

Proximity Freeze: A clone can sacrifice itself to freeze all clones within some radius. The sabotage clone would be stuck unless thawed by touching another clone. So the trade off is defender loses one clone and immobilizes their own nearby, and also has the chance to dispose of the frozen sabotage clone if they have time to make a path to do so.

Double-Nova: Going nova near a sabotage clone would stun it, and if while stunned another nova went off nearby then the sabotage clone would shatter to bits. So the defender trades 2 clones and land to eliminate the sabotage clone.

Selective Mold: Similar to the idea in lemmings, a molder can build even when there is no land under it BUT ONLY if an opponent clob/gulp clone is the cause of the missing bridge.

Anti-Nova: A clone can sacrifice itself to quickly add a lot of land, the same amount a dark clone removed when exploded. This will not directly deal with the sabotage clone but will buy some time.

God Clone: A clone can be made "god clone" temporarily which allows it to continue to build without any land under it, "super mold" but fleeting. Must have land under it to start molding though.

The "super mold" idea of allowing molders to build even when there is no land under them might look strange in Clones. Strange enough that it might look broken? However gameplay-wise it would be nearly the opposite of the current situation, since now a focused attacker is difficult to stop, whereas with the super mold a focused defender is difficult to kill. Both options seem like extremes, isn't there a middle ground?
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby CCX » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:05 pm

It might be helpful to explain the "Lemmings behavior" for people who don't remember or never played Lemmings. In that game, during molding (actually called "building", but let's substitute Clones terminology here), you don't fall while laying down mold "steps" and stepping up onto them, even if the ground the molder is currently standing on is removed by some other action. What you can't do of course is to simply start molding while in the middle of falling; that doesn't work even in Lemmings. :P Simply put, molders in Lemmings are immune to falling, but you must still be on land (for the most part...) to start molding in the first place.

I think the current issue rt is trying to address is the case where, under normal Clones behavior, the molder would fall and stop molding, if the ground he is currently standing on is removed. So someone sabotaging a mold bridge would not merely force a repair on the bridge, but could potentially also stop the molding altogether. rt's "selective molding" proposal would basically be a version of the above description of Lemmings behavior. I don't know whether rt's "god clone/super mold" option implies the ability to build even while in the middle of falling; that might indeed be too powerful and weird.
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby minimac » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:54 am

How about the addition of some one-way terrain? In other words terrain that can be clobbed, gulped or even drilled in one direction only.
I use function keys for each morph. It is much easier for me doing it this way.
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby CCX » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:09 pm

You could create a sort of half-working one-way wall today using proximity and action objects. I've attached an example level.

As you can see, it will detect and stop attempts at clobbing/gulping the "wrong" way, but not before you've already taken out a little bit of the terrain. So with persistence you can still go through it the wrong way, bit by bit. Also, it doesn't work with clones of different gravities since detection is based purely on the clone's facing direction.

Of course, with the various mechanisms available in Clones, you can do things like making the wall clonium, and require the player to get to the other side of the wall to touch a switch that then either removes the wall, or replaces it with a new wall that's not clonium. You would end up having more or less the same sort of solutions as using an actual one-way wall.
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half-working one-way-wall example
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Re: New Trap/Object Concepts Brainstorm

Postby tom » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:46 am

I think at one point we evaluated one way terrain, but it never materialized probably due to the complications with gravity. Like CCX mentioned, you can be creative with the editor so make something similar. Perhaps a trap the would be useful is a "no morph zone" trap. This would allow you to create an area of the level where clones couldn't perform morphs (and existing morphs would get canceled). The no morph zone could be set to detect for clones of a particular group, gravity, facing, etc.
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