Demo Feedback

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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby geoo » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:08 pm

Had some multiplayer games again, yesterday with Simon. First time with version 1.0 for me, and the first time I actively used directional select. I permanently use it in Lemmings, and mapped it like my standard Lemmings layout (to S and F, like Simon I think). Still got to get used to it a bit though, as the assignment format (i.e. first selecting clone, then assigning) makes it work a little differently than I'm used to.

I think I already said it, but may favourite map of the ones currently available is definately the 'capture the clone' one (I don't know its name). And in good Lemmings fashion for levels allowing so many different strategies and routes, we played it like 20-30 times in a row. I think the all-or-nothing format of this game mode allows for short and fast-paced matches in general, and I like this a lot.

As I can't set port forwarding for me, Simon hosted, but I think one thing a little bit annoying we noticed is that the altered stats (e.g. double speed builder, release rate, amount of clones, skillset) get reset every time you start the level anew. Perhaps merely an option to reset it to the defaults would be better than automatically doing it.

I think Simon wanted me to write another thing, but I forgot what it was...

Unrelated to that, and not a point of criticism, is that I noticed that I barely, if ever, look at the amount of morphs I still have left. I usually only notice that I ran out of a morph when I try to assign it unsuccessfully. I think I'm used to the huge glaring number there that L++ has. ;)
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby rt » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:29 pm

geoo wrote:may favourite map of the ones currently available is definately the 'capture the clone' one (I don't know its name). And in good Lemmings fashion for levels allowing so many different strategies and routes, we played it like 20-30 times in a row.


You're right, that map does allow for quick yet focused matches. It's tricky to plan ahead when there is an opponent messing up your path :) We are adding an icon above the heads of the captureable clones in the next version to help them to stand out from the rest.

a little bit annoying we noticed is that the altered stats (e.g. double speed builder, release rate, amount of clones, skillset) get reset every time you start the level anew


Yes i discovered this too and we've already added the code to allow you to save and load previous configurations for a level. It'll be in the next update.

I barely, if ever, look at the amount of morphs I still have left. I usually only notice that I ran out of a morph when I try to assign it unsuccessfully. I think I'm used to the huge glaring number there that L++ has


I tried to be generous with the morphs in the multiplayer levels, but perhaps i should increase the numbers a bit. The feature of saving/loading configurations might help also as you can tweak it to what you like and use that config each time you play.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:28 pm

Ah, yeah, now I remember what I wanted to write.

I disabled the backgrounds, so that any non-landscape pixel is black. I wanted to try if that helps during gameplay, and indeed it helps a small bit, because I can see clearly any leftover pixels that clones can land on. I didn't do it for performance, because the game runs nicely with or without backgrounds.

There are two disadvantages from having no backgrounds: The dark clones are nearly invisible. A light aura around the dark clone, or something else non-black, would be really helpful. The other disadvantage, which I haven't tested explicitly, might be the torch next to the entrance on the beach map. I know that clones get burned in that area, so I guess they will also get burned with backgrounds turned off, but there's no torch displayed then. Don't know if it's worth fixing though; the dark clones issue appears easier to fix.

And yeah, all or nothing is fun on Capture the clone. :-)

And something about a very different topic: The "you lose" music at the end of a multiplayer match is such a good tune, it's unbelievable. Is there, by any chance, a longer version of this track?

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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby geoo » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:50 am

rt wrote:I tried to be generous with the morphs in the multiplayer levels, but perhaps i should increase the numbers a bit. The feature of saving/loading configurations might help also as you can tweak it to what you like and use that config each time you play.

Oh, I didn't mean to say that the morph count is too low; in fact, it doesn't happen too frequently that I run of a skill. It was just an observation of myself that I rarely look at the morph counts.

And I totally agree, the 'you lose' tune is really great. It's some kind of consolation when you lose ;)
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Ophelius » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:26 pm

Hey RT,
Sweet game you guys have here. I think the multi-player "lemmings" aspect is great, even though I still have to practice a lot before I have a chance to beat you haha. I guess memorizing the keyboard controls would be key for faster execution. I can't wait until this game reaches a larger population so there's always lots of players online. I'll probably end up buying this game one day.

Here's some feedback:

[Forum] - I didn't like the fact that I had to choose such a strong password for this forum. I know you can never too careful, but just because my password doesn't have a number, a capital, some punctuation character, plus the rest of the regular letter, doesn't mean it isn't strong. I tried my usual password which is a series of 12 random letters(which would be most likely impossible to figure out) and that was still too weak.

[Demo Single player] - The tutorial level was very informative giving me a nice challenge, all while being intuitive enough to learn about the game. I think the tutorial level should be split up into 2-3 different shorter levels instead of a really long one. I find a lot of modern games have it built this way using mini-challenges to keep the new user's attention span with less to absorb all at once.
What I think you guys should also change is the level 1 demo stage after that. I found it was too advanced for just starting out. I think the first real level should just be a regular level aimed at a novice, maybe one with more digging underground. The different colored clones falling from different directions made it confusing. I'm sure I could eventually figure it out, but every new level should progress making it easier to get your feet wet.

That's it for now, keep up the great work. Give my kudos to the graphic artists. Amazing art. Reminds me of the game Spore.

Justin
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby beather64 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:32 am

Hi RT,
This is Nikke from our little in-game chat ;)

As promised, here are my suggestions/comments

1) The help option doesn't work?

2) The second level of the robot brain is very unclear to me what to do, even though I read the intro a few times.

3) There is a bug with the collisions on the ice level
Image

If you just stand on the rotating L, you will automatically go through it.

4) You should make the flowers above the gate in multiplayer match the team color. Red flowers for red, Blue flowers for blue.

If I have more, I will post them.

I also posted a small review on my website, keep it up!
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:10 pm

Resolution: I can select my favorite resolution, 1280 x 960, when I don't use the monitor that has 1280 x 1024 natively, but instead my notebook's internal display with 1400-somewhat natively.

I would like to be able to use the 1280 x 960 resolution with the formerly mentioned monitor as well, because the game looks perfectly then. In case the game tries to offer just the resolutions that fit the screen, it's excluding the most important one that is still 4:3. I remember that it was possible in the demos earlier than v1.0. The highest resolution I can select for the monitor is 1024 x 768.

Exit crash: The game didn't crash on exiting after selecting the higher res. It did so each time with the lower Clones resolution on my system, regardless of which monitor I used. Or maybe the game just crashes without me getting a Windows crash message ("Clones has experienced a problem and must be terminated").

Planet crashes: This is very interesting. I can get the game to crash every time when I click on Pilgrimage and immediately drag the (not yet drawn) planet wildly with the mouse. I can access the planet without crash if I click Pilgrimage and wait patiently, taking care not to do anything with the mouse.

However, I like to drag stuff wildly, as I wanna get better than rt in multiplayer. ;-)

Network menu crashes: The "find tournament" menu (the one with the rotatable earth) will cause a crash iff you leave it immediately after entering it.

-- Simon
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:47 am

Simon wrote:There are two disadvantages from having no backgrounds: The dark clones are nearly invisible. A light aura around the dark clone, or something else non-black, would be really helpful.

Somebody else commented on the same thing. I have a few ideas on how to fix this problem, so I'll see what works best.

Simon wrote: The other disadvantage, which I haven't tested explicitly, might be the torch next to the entrance on the beach map.

Never thought of this before, but yes, it is a problem. We'll just have to add an option to the background images to always render even when the show background option is off. Easy fix.

Simon wrote:The "you lose" music at the end of a multiplayer match is such a good tune, it's unbelievable. Is there, by any chance, a longer version of this track?

I don't think rt ever hears that tune anymore :) Most of the music in the game was composed by Kenley Kristofferson. Very talented guy. I'm not aware of any longer version of that track, but I can ask and maybe he'll make one. All together there are over 30 unique music tracks in the final game. They are all really good and some of them, I'd have to say, are outstanding.

Simon wrote:I would like to be able to use the 1280 x 960 resolution with the formerly mentioned monitor as well

As long as the resolution is 4:3 or wider aspect ratio, and it is listed in windows display settings, then the resolution should be available in Clones. Can you double check to make sure that resolution is listed in windows display settings? Currently I am using a 1280x1024 native resolution monitor, and I can select 1280x960 in Clones. Perhaps your display driver or monitor driver needs to be updated?

I wasn't able to reproduce any of those crashes you reported. They must all be related to the same thing. I'll try to see if I can reproduce these crashes on other systems I have access to. What are the current specs of your computer and OS?
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby tom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:12 am

Ophelius wrote:I still have to practice a lot before I have a chance to beat you haha. I guess memorizing the keyboard controls would be key for faster execution. I can't wait until this game reaches a larger population so there's always lots of players online.

Keyboard control is almost essential when you need the fastest execution, but rt was still able to beat me almost all the time when he was playing with the clones belt only (to prove a point). So it's not always speed, but strategy that wins.

Ophelius wrote:I didn't like the fact that I had to choose such a strong password for this forum.

A strong password isn't required. You can still create your account with a weaker password.

Ophelius wrote:The tutorial level was very informative giving me a nice challenge, all while being intuitive enough to learn about the game. I think the tutorial level should be split up into 2-3 different shorter levels instead of a really long one.

We received the same comment from others, so we are splitting it up into two levels, and more simplified. I think it will make a big difference.

beather64 wrote:The help option doesn't work?

Ya, this doesn't do anything. Normally one would refer to the game's manual for help (this will be included in the final game - we already have the first draft completed). I think we'll just remove the help option from the menu unless you can suggest some information that would be useful for the player?
beather64 wrote:The second level of the robot brain is very unclear to me what to do, even though I read the intro a few times.

This is a more advanced level (and I suggested to RT to make it the last level in the demo). The idea is to solve the puzzle by controlling a different group at a time, but in the end, they must all work together to achieve the goal. Perhaps the wording can be changed to make it clearer.
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Re: Demo Feedback

Postby Simon » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:14 pm

I had a short discussion of the crashes/graphic issues with Tom via Jabber, this is the essential content:

tom wrote:As long as the resolution is 4:3 or wider aspect ratio, and it is listed in windows display settings, then the resolution should be available in Clones. Can you double check to make sure that resolution is listed in windows display settings?

I will test if the resolution is offered in Win XP for that monitor when I get back to university in a week, where the monitor sits.

tom wrote:I wasn't able to reproduce any of those crashes you reported. They must all be related to the same thing.

I updated my video card drivers, and it remedied all planet-related crashes so far. Perfect! If any such crashes appear again, I'll post about them.

The only crash that remains is the one during exiting the application. I believe this will happen if Windows' resolution is different from the Clones one, but I have to test again.

tom wrote:What are the current specs of your computer and OS?

Win XP 32-bit, 1 GB of RAM, Nvidia Geforce Go 7600, DirectX 9.0. I've updated the video card drivers today, the old ones were from 2005, the new ones are from 2009-01. I didn't think the last update was so far ago, so I haven't tried updating the drivers before.

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